URGENT Ongar - Wallis & Co (Ongar Green Mgmt Co )

ChrisP

New Member
I am a resident owner in Ongar and have recently been looking in to the state of affairs for our Mgmt Co being managed by Wallis.
The situation is not good at all and from my findings Wallis are incapable and unable to run the affairs of this company in a competent manner. There have been massive amounts of residents not paying their fees resulting in the estate coming into disrepair, lack of maintenance etc. Wallis are doing nothing to chase these residents for payments and have chosen not to take the legal route, which is farcical. This is an absolute joke and will only get worse as time passes. Legally residents have to pay their fees and will always lose any case brought up in the courts. The losing parties will pay all legal fees too.

I have taken advice from a contact sitting on the board of a well run management company and have shown them the accounts and correspondence received from Wallis. Basically, Wallis are doing a horrendous job and need to be questioned on a lot of matters and more directly they should be dismissed from their current role. Our homes are at risk here of being neglected and more importantly we are paying for a service that is not being delivered. An AGM has not been held since 2008 and this badly needs to happen ASAP. I have contacted Wallis many times but have been given the runaround as have many others from threads i have seen. We need to group together and demand an AGM to discuss all matters concerning Wallis Mgmt and it needs to have soon.

Please highlight any concerns you may have on this thread and with enough support we can group together and demand an AGM.

Regards

ChrisP
 

GW1

New Member
I am a resident of Ongar and would be interested in joining an action group to bring about improvements in the area. I have also requested an AGM from Wallis but am getting the run around. I contacted Fingal County Council regarding the green area etc and they tell me that Manor Park Homes are responsible for grass cutting on the green. Manor Park are in receivership and Fingal Co Co don't want to know. I spoke to the litter warden last week and they say because we are under the care of a Management Company they won't deal with litter problems in the area.
 

ChrisP

New Member
Basically MPH have 2 directors on ONGAR Mgmt Co. board. MPH we believe own a number of apartments that are being rented and these apartments are not paying their fees. So Wallis are not going to take legal action against their directors. I think this is also adding to the reasons Wallis are not doing their job. It is a total mess.
Wallis are giving the runaround to an awful lot of residents. As GW1 mentioned we do need to group together, approach Wallis, and demand an AGM.

Anyone who sees this thread and is ready to make a move upon Wallis, please contact any other residents who will do the same and we can meet up. We do need numbers though to make this work. Please post any information or messages of support

thanks
 

m ward

New Member
Im here in chapel farm anor manor park homebuilder development with a management company on neighbours dublin north and wallis as agents - and its like the same record. I empathise fully with the grievances with the developers, fingal and wallis.

The reason wallis is 'giving the runaround' is because wallis no longer have clients. They will not be suing anyone for service charge. It is the board of directors of a company whether limited by share or guarantee who make these all important decisions and sign the cheque by the way - ie call a agm, sue for service charges etc. YThe last agm here was also in jan 2009. 07 accoutns approved. no accounts approved since then but it is also true anor problem here is that owners memebrs dont want to pay - probably money and many neighbours here see the management company as wallis when in fact it is here chapel farm management company limited and we are members, but only recetnly last month when one director john moran sent a notice out of an agm giving an incorrect date - caused a lot of confusions ie was the date 20 June 11 a typo error and meeting for 20 june 12 - aim to get accoutns passed and saddle owners with a 29 thousand euro debt not belonging to us at all for landscaping services. Under the lease of easements MPH are liable to keep insurances in place and maintain common areas until they are transferred to the managemetn company. But no common areas have been transferred to the managemetn company and now MPH is in liquidation., Which brings me back to wallis - now that MPH in liquidation it means that bank aaapoints liquidaators to dispose of all MPH assets lands and income. And under lease the service charge is assets of mph now belonging to the bank. but neither bank nor mph wants to be associated with the service charge income and so J Moran wanted to resign from the board last month and leave owners here with this 29 thousant euro debt and let bank get on with selling the land or whatever. if u understand. But no takers on the floor. so morans still directors of CFMC. I suspect no takers as people knew no one paying and the the estate is in a mess. not as much as your i suspect but same underlying problesm.

* A managing agent who realy cant do much any how any more.
* Green areas unmaintained.,
* No Public Liability Insurance in places.
* Fingal Co Council not wanting to know. That anor big issue here and people hoping and believing that fingal will take over the four large tracts of green land under whihc service run to and from houses - pipes etc. Ther is alos drainage problems. But govt cutting down on funding to laocal authorities. Bank of Scotland have a charge on those lands and they will not i dont believe hammer out any deal with fingal co council particularily if fingal looking for more money which they are.

Unless homeowner/ members of management company use their rights in all areas - ie under MUD Act, Under Companies Act and Under leases.
re companies act. Memebr can call an agm under companies act and dismiss directors . only memebrs can do it. or they can apply to court. but so can developer apply to court under mud act to ahve company transferred to memebrs. it seem to me that yur proble, same here is that many owners goign around quite content not to pay service charge in the hpe that fingal will come in. wont happen.

I got a lease of easements for 999 yeras over all those green areas granted to me by MPH and CFMC when I bought house. That give me right of access to all the unsold land and to use them. anor 436 similar lease given to all other home owners. MPH in the lease assented to my lease being entered as a burden on MPH title to the lands. ie mph cant sell land free of that burden unless i agree to it being removed. I have recently had my lease entered as a burden on the MPH land registry folio to block any sale of the land by bank of scotland and mph until the the land issue resolved - what land to be conveyed to management company and what if any to fingal. if the owners in ongar do likewise then bank will take note and may have to make some deal with fingal.


:
 

ONGAR_D15

New Member
I am one of a number of residents who met with David Wallis last November in the hope of getting clarity on what is going on with the Ongar Wood Management Company Ltd. We had been querying the breakdown of the service charges Wallis Property Management had been chasing since 2007. Although the houses were complete in 2003, it was not until 2007 before we first heard of Wallis and Ongar Wood Property Management (which tells its own story).

One of the takeaways from the November meeting was the holding of a AGM this year which I believe was to be held on the 18th of July last (I could not attend because I was out of the country).

As a group of residents we are keen to get some resolution to what is obviously a management company with no future (as it stands now), we would be interested in chatting with others who feel the same about where we live, and hopefully we can share our information on David Wallis (whose own company WPM is now showing up as a maximum risk company on a credit risk report dated 18/07/12).

Taking over the company is probably the best route to be taken here, but it will take some very committed people to get involved to do this.
Any interested out there please get in touch.
NILTRAP@GMAIL.COM
 

vid1

New Member
hi there,

just wondering has there been any developments made in regard to Wallis management, the place is falling apart im sad to say. :)
 

Murfs

New Member
Hi there,

am new to this Ongar Management thing and was hoping for some insights and experiences.

In trying to educate myself on the matter:
1. I got a copy of last year's annual CRO returns for Ongar Wood Management Ltd. It makes for interesting reading and it raises a number of questions (get in touch if you want a copy):
- the company directors are John and Patrick Moran. The same directors of the now bust Manor Park Homebuilders. How can the developers also be directors of a management company? Is this not a conflict of interest? The decisions the directors of this company make will never serve the interests of the residents. It is a commercial entity who's sole purpose is to make money.
2. It seems allot of people were unaware they were buying a property in a setup like this. I certainly was never told about a management company I would have to pay money to through an agent. I was miss-sold to. I am not an owner but merely a tenant paying money to a landlord through an agent.
3. It seems to me that if the landlord wishes us to pay for services to the estate, we need to see and agree to a service contract. Has anyone ever seen, signed or agreed to a contract for services with Wallis or the Management Company? Surely, somewhere along the line, there has to be a contract offered and a contract accepted / rejected?
4. What role does Fingal County Coucil play in all this? My understanding at the time of purchase was that the estate would be handed over to the council once they were happy that essential services has been provided (roads, lights, sewage etc).

I wrote to key members of Fingal County Council management team to ask them some questions about Ongar:
1) With the payment of the house-hold charge and the soon to be established property tax to fund local authority services, Ongar Residents would like to know how we go about notifying the council that with this charge and tax, the council will be the new entity responsible for providing services to the estate.

We cannot afford to pay both a property management fee to some independent company / contractor and a household charge / property tax to the local council for the same services (this obviously does not include flat complexes in the development).

2) As Manor Park Home Builders, the Ongar developers, are now bust (May 2012), could you confirm the status of Ongar as a development and how the council will be taking over the development.

Taking Action:
It seems we have a choice...keep paying the pied-piper or we make a stand and take our place of residence back.
1. How do we get rid of all management agents and force Fingal County Council to take responsibility for the estate.
2. How do we get rid of the Management Company's that control the communities in which we live?
3. Has any of this been tested in the courts? I'd be happy to volunteer (with some help and support) as it seems the whole thing is a mess of cobbled together legislation that only came into being in 2011...ages after the horse had already bolted and surely has no effect retrospectively?

It is only through our mindless, ongoing payments to this management company that we keep the whole ponzi scheme going and I think it's high time we did something to challenge it and take our homes back. For ourselves by ourselves.
 

m ward

New Member
View attachment 1147View attachment 1148View attachment 1149View attachment 1150View attachment 1151Thurs 26 3 13

This is M Ward from Chapel Farm her again.

I have read murphs post.

Murph if u own a house - and I presume u do - then u are a memebr of Ongar Green Management Company Limited. Like a shareholder except that the management company is a company limited by guarantee. U are no tenant and the company is not your landlord.

The meebers have a clear dispute with the Board of directors - like ehre save thats coming to an end and will come to this later.

But first how did u get caught up in this company lark. Answer when u bought your house. The contract for the purchase was of three parts namely:

1 U would get owsnerhsip of the house per se,
2 U alos enterd a contract with manor park and management company to become a member of the management company and both of which gave u a 999 year lease over all the commin areas and the covenants u made in that lease were included a term that the developer will set the servcice charge. U ALSO covenanted to pay that and udner the elase that wld remain in force until last house sold and developer wld then transfer common areas not taken in charge to management company and then memebr wld control service charge and all its affairs.

However since then Manor Park has gone into liquidation and of cse counicl has not taken over all common areas (disopute betweeen manor banks and council over those things ) and I attach copy letter from wallis company to us letting us know that one way or anor the morans are stepping of the baord of CFMC. Ltd . Directors can simply sending in notice of resignation ot companies office and if n o baord elected then no annural returns will be filed (only board can do that) and company can be struck off and if that happens then will obstruct sale of houses.

I know money is a big obstical - and to be honest between property tax etc - little movement in this area on residents part as member of management company but and may be the same in ongar park/.

What Manor saying now and one way or anor those moran will ahve to go form all boards of all management companies - up to memenbr then - they can decide waht service charge will be inf any but where memeder will be really caught is on sale of houses. tahts when they will ahve to face this management company business alone. Wont be walllis wond be manor park it will be each owners as memebr of compnay .

Caution: Look at accoutn for that company - here we have been told 29 thousand euro owed by man company to sap for landscaping. So if u cee what I mean one way or anor memebr are going to have to take on that man company - ie accept that they need it to sell their houses - and then no 2 are u willing to accept a company with debts or not. On e thing u can do to put a bit of pressure to get company with no debts and I may be able to assist - Did u get similar letter or what positions with u. MW
 

Murfs

New Member
Hi M Ward,

yes I am a house owner in Ongar Wood.

I like simple...
1. Let private company's fold if they are insolvent. Some win, some lose, but everyone moves on.
2. Any debts these company's have are the responsibility of the directors. It is they who decided to spend more than what they were collecting.
3. Members are not liable for a private company's debts. That's like saying the members of Total Fitness were responsible for their demise and the debts should be carried by the members.
3. Company members have no power and it ultimately means nothing of any consequence...as everyone can recall from trying to see what money was being spent on by agents, calling AGM's etc.
4. Residents / members should not be called upon to bail out yet another Celtic Tiger 'innovation'.
5. Rip it up and start again. Who says we need another mgmt company? Everyone has to pay a property tax to fund big pensions, expenses..sorry, local services. Make the council responsible for Ongar in its entirety.


Some areas do need clarification:
1. What areas have been handed over to the council? Ongar Wood, Ongar Chase, Ongar Lodge...?
2. What effect does the receivership have on the 1000yr lease? Does the council get the land back?
3. What effect does the null and void lease have on property deeds and people's ability to buy into and sell out of Ongar (it may take 1000yrs to restore equity to the houses but its good to have a dream...v long term one)
 

Murfs

New Member
We heard that there was a court case where 2 residents went to court (and won) against the developers and their mgmt co's in 2006 or so (Tyrellstown residents).

We're trying to establish facts about what actually happened. If anyone knows these people or has any more info to add, that would be great.

This is what we know:

“In March of last year (2006), two residents of Tyrellstown refused to pay their service charges, claiming that it was double taxation.

They were ordered by court to pay over €1,000 to companies managing their housing estates. However, seven months later, on October 19, the action group won a substantial victory in the Circuit Court. In a case involving a Tyrellstown householder, the management company was found to be at fault for pursuing a householder for fees, while the common areas were still in the ownership of the developers.

The court also found that the fees being sought were not properly certified.

Judge Alan Mahon ruled that the defendant was entitled to know what precisely he was being asked to pay for so that he could then dispute any aspect of it. Secondly, he ruled the plaintiff lacked proper legal standing - simply being the agent for the developer, did not give them a right to claim.

According to Charlie Cleary, following this ruling, 24 further cases were heard in the small claims court, including his own, and similar decisions were made.

‘‘The majority of residents here want management companies to take care of the upkeep of common areas in the apartments, but not in the houses,” Cleary said. ‘‘The management companies were never supposed to be in the housing areas - we wish the council would get more involved in the situation, because it’s the residents against the developers at the moment.”

______________________________________

If anyone could provide any clarity on the above we would be very appreciative.

Does the ruling mean that while the common areas are still in the ownership of the developers, no fees should have been sought / collected..? And that the housing areas were never to be included...only the apartments?

Any help appreciated.
 

m ward

New Member
management company

Hello View attachment 1238View attachment 1239View attachment 1240

I'm in chapel farm and the only reason I am replying to your post is cos we share the same developer and local authority manor park homebuilders (in liquidation) and Fingal Co Council and the management companies their joint creation,. Agreed.

As to your question I don't think it is relevant the answers since MPH is in liquidation - what is relevant from my perspective is that the current board of directors of Chapel Farm Management Company Limited are the Morans and I got letter form Wallis telling me that if no members form Chapel Farm agreed to go on the Bd then after 30 June Wallis wld be resigning as wld directors of C H F C which means no annual returns wld be filed in the companies office unless a new bd form the membership appointed. I attached copy letter sent to Fingal Co Council - Which I hope sets out message.

Problem here is the very anti Management company sentiment among owners in this estate. Don't know if same in Ongar but I have no doubt that at some stage Members of CFMC are going to have to step on to the Bd of Directors my positions at moment is not prepared unless Indemnity furnished to company and public liability insurance in place. Then let fingal and banks and etc fight away and when they have decided what to do with common areas come back again. If u understand.


Don't know if it will work suspect it wont which means then that company cld well be on strike off list after 30 9 13 unless either Morans don't resign and file returns or if they do then member here step on to the Bd and do that job. Only Bod of Directors of management company can file annual returns.


By the way there is no service charge being collected here by Wallis this year. The problem is Board of Directors and whether member here prepared to go on to the Board. Has any of the member gone on to the board of directors of your management company or is it still controlled by the Morans.

I think we share some common problems - e.g. transfer of common areas to management company also. And if u are facing same scenario either members go on this board or face it being struck off the companies office register then u may need Solicitors also. U see I'm relying on Fingal Co Co t try and get goods for me before contemplating going on to this board - namely indemnity and company being noted on banks policy of insurances and even then there may not be sufficient member to go on to the Board to make it legal.


As for what U want - house with no management company - that wont work either.

WE ARE NOT BEING CHARGED ANY SERVICE CHARGE THIS YEAR . THEY CLDNT ANYWAY . BUT IT SEEMT O ME U HAVE SAME PROBLEMS DISPUTE BETWEEN FINGAL DEVELOPER AND BANKS PREVENTING ANY COMPLETION OF ESTAE UNDER mud act.

if U HAVE ANY QUERIES PLS REVERT.

iN PARTICULAR CAN U LET ME KNOW IF MEMEBR ARE ON BOARD OF YOUR MANAGEMETN COMPANY AND IF NOT WHAT THE STOREY?


if member not on board do u have resident association are u retaining an solicitors .
 

m ward

New Member
When I say no man company for houses - if title to your house carry a membership cert of the management company then man company on title and if it struck off then house unmarketable. Only way that can be dispensed with is legislation and cant see that happening.
 

Murfs

New Member
Hi m ward,

in your situation...i would do nothing.

if the mgmt co goes bust that is the moran's problem...they are the directors...it is their names that are on the annual cro accounts...not yours or any 'members'. let this run its course.

if the mgmt co goes bust it is between the liquidator and the council to find a soln.

that soln could be a simple conveyancing one...transfer a few names on a deed document from moran to council for the public bits, from moran to the individual home owners for the houses, and from moran to mgmt co's for the apartment blocks.

this may drag out a bit but if you're in no rush to move or sell...well then f*** them.

let the liquidators, bank and council sort it out among themselves.

go have a pint.

it's not your fault the morans went bust. its not your fault the mgmt cos are in massive debt.

i wouldn't believe a word that came out of anyone's mouth especially from anyone using fear mongering to influence behavior.

i repeat..f*** them. go have a pint.
 

Susie Woosie

New Member
Does anyone know what the current story is with Wallis

They were previously responsible for cutting the grass in my front garden but the weeds are as tall as I am

I know this is only a minor thing in contrast to the whole area which is in just complete disarray

Has Wallis gone bust or are they still working in the area?
 

Murfs

New Member
Hi Susie,

think it's time we started doing things for ourselves.

Stop paying mgmt fees for a start.

I got a court summons from a debt collector working for Wallis. I responded in kind with a solicitor letter to say I would defend. I have heard nothing since.

There may be a general campaign like this on the go but I wouldn't be intimidated. If you look at the last Annual Return for Ongar Wood Mgmt Co Ltd to the CRO you'll see that debt is an issue and the company is pretty much insolvent. The Moran's may be making one last attempt to squeeze cash from residents (and hoping beyond hope that residents will become directors so they can wash their hands of the mess).

Another reason to stop paying fees is that I have been speaking with Fingal Co Co about the situation. They are trying to sequester the bonds for the development from the bond holding company, but they are not co-operating so the whole thing is going to end up in a car crash in the courts at some stage.

Also see the court case Tyrrelstown residents won against developers and their agents in a previous post on 13/06
 

Susie Woosie

New Member
Ill probably be getting a letter this week so

I've not paid for the 1st time since I've moved to Ongar

I'm unsure of whats happening

Ill definitely be keeping my eye on this thread....

S




Hi Susie,

think it's time we started doing things for ourselves.

Stop paying mgmt fees for a start.

I got a court summons from a debt collector working for Wallis. I responded in kind with a solicitor letter to say I would defend. I have heard nothing since.

There may be a general campaign like this on the go but I wouldn't be intimidated. If you look at the last Annual Return for Ongar Wood Mgmt Co Ltd to the CRO you'll see that debt is an issue and the company is pretty much insolvent. The Moran's may be making one last attempt to squeeze cash from residents (and hoping beyond hope that residents will become directors so they can wash their hands of the mess).

Another reason to stop paying fees is that I have been speaking with Fingal Co Co about the situation. They are trying to sequester the bonds for the development from the bond holding company, but they are not co-operating so the whole thing is going to end up in a car crash in the courts at some stage.

Also see the court case Tyrrelstown residents won against developers and their agents in a previous post on 13/06
 

m ward

New Member
View attachment 1492
Hi M Ward,

yes I am a house owner in Ongar Wood.

I like simple...
1. Let private company's fold if they are insolvent. Some win, some lose, but everyone moves on.
2. Any debts these company's have are the responsibility of the directors. It is they who decided to spend more than what they were collecting.
3. Members are not liable for a private company's debts. That's like saying the members of Total Fitness were responsible for their demise and the debts should be carried by the members.
3. Company members have no power and it ultimately means nothing of any consequence...as everyone can recall from trying to see what money was being spent on by agents, calling AGM's etc.
4. Residents / members should not be called upon to bail out yet another Celtic Tiger 'innovation'.
5. Rip it up and start again. Who says we need another mgmt company? Everyone has to pay a property tax to fund big pensions, expenses..sorry, local services. Make the council responsible for Ongar in its entirety.


Some areas do need clarification:
1. What areas have been handed over to the council? Ongar Wood, Ongar Chase, Ongar Lodge...?
2. What effect does the receivership have on the 1000yr lease? Does the council get the land back?
3. What effect does the null and void lease have on property deeds and people's ability to buy into and sell out of Ongar (it may take 1000yrs to restore equity to the houses but its good to have a dream...v long term one)

attached web conversation between two house owners in cityside finglas another Multi Unit Development about the fact that the sale of their houses have fallen through because THE COMMON AREAS HAVE NOT BEEN TRANSFERRED TO THE MANAGEMENT COMPANY.

The name of your management company is on schedule of documents with your title deeds. Seems either onger wood or Ongar green. By the way finglas coming on to lands or not has nought to do with value of homes - ie price u will get but whether or not management company owns lands - ie has developer transferred the common areas to the man co. For banks not lending to purchasers in cases where developer not alone in this (e.g. here mph in liquidation) or as in Finglas the builder not contactable. Only people who can change this - their homes worth cash are homeowner themselves but as MEMBERS of the MANAGEMENT COMPNAY.
we all contracted to join when purchasing from builder. Seems t me u should forget Fingal forget leases and all that at moment and concentrate on man co for believe me liquidator want to close his files and sell those lands in your estate . He has to before MPH Directors can hang up their hats. And if he does and passes over u - ????



Seem to me that first thing u have to do is take control of your management company and only member /homeowners can do that. Not banks and not fingal. HAVE U GOT Homeowner/members who are directors of your management company? And check your articles of association and see who has the owner voting rights of members for here it is at moment the subscribers to the articles of association - 7 solicitors in O'Donnell Sweeney solicitors who acted for mph.



Only people who can do anything - and their decisions - are homeowners/members of their management company. Same is the case in onger and her in chapel farm
 

m ward

New Member
View attachment 1492


attached web conversation between two house owners in cityside finglas another Multi Unit Development about the fact that the sale of their houses have fallen through because THE COMMON AREAS HAVE NOT BEEN TRANSFERRED TO THE MANAGEMENT COMPANY.

The name of your management company is on schedule of documents with your title deeds. Seems either onger wood or Ongar green. By the way finglas coming on to lands or not has nought to do with value of homes - ie price u will get but whether or not management company owns lands - ie has developer transferred the common areas to the man co. For banks not lending to purchasers in cases where developer not alone in this (e.g. here mph in liquidation) or as in Finglas the builder not contactable. Only people who can change this - their homes worth cash are homeowner themselves but as MEMBERS of the MANAGEMENT COMPNAY.
we all contracted to join when purchasing from builder. Seems t me u should forget Fingal forget leases and all that at moment and concentrate on man co for believe me liquidator want to close his files and sell those lands in your estate . He has to before MPH Directors can hang up their hats. And if he does and passes over u - ????



Seem to me that first thing u have to do is take control of your management company and only member /homeowners can do that. Not banks and not fingal. HAVE U GOT Homeowner/members who are directors of your management company? And check your articles of association and see who has the owner voting rights of members for here it is at moment the subscribers to the articles of association - 7 solicitors in O'Donnell Sweeney solicitors who acted for mph.



Only people who can do anything - and their decisions - are homeowners/members of their management company. Same is the case in onger and her in chapel farm

This is m ward here chapel farm again mph estate.


That what u need to keep in mind. MPH Estate and interest of man co and u homeowner in those unsold lands by BANK. Management Company need to put a caution on the folio title doc of MPH to the lands by Man Co preventing any dealing with the unsold lands and grounds are that

(a) Developer in liquidation has failed to comply with obligation in mud act to convey common areas to the man co and

(b) man co also has interest in access to land under/over/ on which public utilities and services are running to and from house -

remember if MPH /Liquidator sell then new owner can simply put a fence up and say no access.

So man co needs to ask

1 Fingal Co Co for a letter of indemnity to indemnify man co against any claims by owner against company cos of fault in services the source of which is on unsold lands. u are not likely to get that cos fingal never invited on to the lands by mph or bank

2 so u need to get if from new owner when lends sold and caution on MPH Title is your tool .

Attached form 82 for cfmc ltd. and u may be interested but


lands in aston village Drogheda being sold - see facebook page - and u keep an eye - on it.


View attachment 1500View attachment 1499MW
 
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