Clamping? Ugh..

superfloss01

New Member
Clamping is not for everybody

I have read all your messages since my last one this afternoon,
What can I say to all your "so reasonable messages" except over 100 people in this estate are not for it and it should never been implemented. I know this is a long reply, but perhaps it might show some where we are coming from thanks again.

One point to make is that I have not requested parking permits and I have paid in full- shame on the people who voted for this and we will continue the fight to look for a overall vote contract or no contract 20 people cannot decided the overall majority of this estate to introduce clamping- as for people not paying their fees - it will be an outstanding debt on their houses when they go to sell. I am sorry I cannot be reasonable to a clamping company who "makes parking simple for my family or myself by texting etc, Its wrong and the alternatives you keep asking for does not make what 20 people voted on right. It seems to me that asking for an alternative is asking me what the 20 persons who voted this in "how can we live with ourselves alternative", it’s not for me to give an alternative nor will I feel the need to explain myself to anyone. We are about getting rid of the clamping first then ask the majority and I mean the majority what are the alternatives are take a vote on this one.

Also there are other issues in relation to clamping- which should be addressed like the yellow lines, have the 20 people who voted this in asked the people who park on the corners where will they park instead? Maybe a warning sign and a little ramp like another I have seen in the estate might be ok with people?? How much does this cost I'm sure this is an easy one to address, also the majority of people who have paid their fees in full (I did) did not under any circumstances want parking permits so where was our rights in this? very unfair play and hopefully we can get rid of it.

ps I don't mind paying my fees in full and others have not as I have said above it still will be an outstanding debt on their house / apt whatever, so they will have to deal with it at some stage. As for the people who did mind fair enough but to vote in clamping that was not the majority vote- is wrong plain and simple and that's what we are about. Get a majority vote before I feel the need to give an alternative! Because if 50% of the people did not pay then get 50% vote for clamping. that's what we are about.

Please see below a copy of our letter about your legal rights in this areaeverybody is entitled to have a say not just 20 people ??, and if anybody wants a hard copy just let me know it’s no problem regardless if you are "for" or "against" Also copy of Contract to APOCA for one year will be delivered to all thanks again. Now I think I have said enough!!
Cheers Amanda


Copy of LetterResidents against clampingAs most of us are all aware (thanks to the unsightly signs!!!) clamping is due to come in to Newcastle Manor.
A lot of us are trying to object to this, one of the apparent reasons for the introduction of clamping our cars is “to get people to pay their management fees “this is verging on the ridiculous, the problem of unpaid management fees is a problem that needs to be addressed but bringing in clamping to tackle this is wrong, one thing has nothing to do with the other!
We have a problem with parking in our estate, clamping is not the answer.
All this will do is turn neighbour against neighbour and in the mean time a multinational company makes a profit, We need to think and decide what we want and what we think is best for our estate. The people on the committee’s who work hard for all of us and put in a lot of time and efforts deserve credit and appreciation, but this decision is wrong.
We would like to put forward some points for your consideration:
• One of the reasons we bought in this estate are for the aesthetic values we think that will be ruined by horrible signs and yellow lines.
• The idea of asking our visitors (Parents, friends etc) to pay for parking is disgusting.
• There is an APCOA van in the estate no wonder it can provide 24 hour surveillance, this is an obvious conflict of interest and signs of a possible agenda.
• We do not live in a city centre or near a luas line etc. The only people parking in this estate are the people who live here or have business here.
• We do not have enough parking spaces, when all spaces are full (and they have been) permit or no permit where are people supposed to park.
Newcastle Residents please read actual Legal implications regarding recent letter about Clamping from Management Company/ Management Agent
Please do not feel bullied into an inappropriate action by only 15% of the residents of this estate who voted for this action.

There is no legislation in place in relation to clamping by private companies on private ground; it is a practice that is completely unregulated. We have noted a number of clamping companies misrepresent themselves by stating on the ticket that you have committed an offence. This is not the case; you have not committed an offence.
In relation to your rights we would maintain that contained in the deed of transfer of your property are covenants, rights and easements to use and park within the common areas of your estate. We would also maintain that they are interfering with your private property rights pursuant to S43 of the constitution when they clamp your car. You are entitled to protect you private property and this is an accepted defence.

If they do clamp you and you remove it, their only recourse is to sue you in the civil courts for the damage to the lock. This would be folly considering the cost of a €5 lock and cost of proceeding involved. The other option open to them would be to report the matter to the Gardai for criminal damage which the Gardai may or may not pursue.

In either incidence, you would have a full defence of protecting your own personal property which we feel could hold up before a judge. (Be wary however this is untested water as yet. Mostly because clamping companies are well aware that if they bring something like this before a judge and they lose. All the private clamping in the country would have to stop.

The other point to be mindful of is The Company involved is in fact management agents appointed by the management company. The management company is a company whose members consist of all the property owners in the estate. I.e. you. You became a member on the day you purchased the property you and your fellow residents can dictate what management agent manages the estate and if you are unhappy with them you can change it.
As you can see from the above information legally sought, it is totally inappropriate to implement Clamping on Residents. Please note that Clamping is not a debt enforcing company for people who have as yet not paid their management fees. If Management would like relate to residents owing monies it is suggested by residents who signed our petition that they do so in a reasonable appropriate fashion and not bully boy tactics.
Please note that if yellow lines are requested then it should be first and foremost in consent with the Residents of that area and not again implemented on a few views, what was suggested is a warning sign for difficult corners in the estate, again not a way to boost revenue by clamping company who give a commission to management property agencies
Apparently per some of our petitions signatures it was a major fault on Management that none of their letters or requests were replied to regarding the ridiculous amounts that the apartments have to pay and who have not seen any of their contractual obligations fulfilled by the Management Company/ Agency however it is still expected of all apartment owners to pay their full fees regardless.
Many thanks
Amanda O Shea @ 6 Newcastle Manor Court
Caroline O Donnell @ 66 Newcastle Manor Square
 

N7Runner

New Member
Hi Amanda

I'm sorry but I strongly disagree with you on this.

Firstly, one of the reasons for the lack of parking in the estate is that there are a number of abandoned cars in the estate. The permit parking would highlight these and hopefully free up some parking spaces for actual car owners in the estate. I know of 3 cars and these are just the ones that I notice as they are parked in the same area where I would be parking.

Secondly, it is not just the people who are not paying their fees who would be affected if the estate went into liquidation. If our estate goes into liquidation no one will be able to sell their home. At the moment I know that the chances of doing this are pretty slim but hopefully at some point in the future this will be possible again. The fact is that a company has served notice on the estate - from memory I think this was SAP landscaping. The notice was served to the members of the commitee's homes. The reason that the 20 people voted in favour of permit parking was because they had listened to the issues that the committee are currently having.

As for not wanting the estate to look unsightly with signs and yellow lines, I think this is the least of our problems considering that the paint is starting to peel off the walls, the tiles on the steps are cracking, there will be no money to fix any problems with the roads and paths if these funds arent raised. The council won’t take over ownership of these until the estate is completed. Another issue raised at the meeting which the committee is trying to resolve.

I would also be happy to attend another meeting. I know you disagree with permit parking but you must agree that we have a problem and we have to come up with some way to resolve this.
 

fpryan77

New Member
Hi Amanda,

I hope it's OK if I pick out a few mistakes in your post:

"One point to make is that I have not requested parking permits and I have paid in full"

You will get your permits automatically if you have paid your fees or are in a payment plan, did you speak to Brian?

"have the 20 people who voted this in asked the people who park on the corners where will they park instead?"

If the abandoned cars are removed, and if the managemnet company had money they could create new parking spaces to alleviate this problem.

"I don't mind paying my fees in full and others have not as I have said above it still will be an outstanding debt on their house / apt whatever, so they will have to deal with it at some stage."

This is incorrect, as the mangement company owes the debt, until that debt is cleared, no-one will be able to sell their house, that includes those who have paid their fees.

"If Management would like relate to residents owing monies it is suggested by residents who signed our petition that they do so in a reasonable appropriate fashion and not bully boy tactics."

To get people to pay the fees was done in a reasonable appropriate fashion, and was done so exhaustively with no affect, the clamping was a last resort, if you were at the AGM you would know this.


"Please note that if yellow lines are requested then it should be first and foremost in consent with the Residents of that area and not again implemented on a few views."

I believe the yellow lines are to be placed in places to prevent dangerous parking, and allow ambulances and fire engines easy access, surely you can't disagree with that?

"Apparently per some of our petitions signatures it was a major fault on Management that none of their letters or requests were replied to regarding the ridiculous amounts that the apartments have to pay and who have not seen any of their contractual obligations fulfilled by the Management Company/ Agency however it is still expected of all apartment owners to pay their full fees regardless."

The reason for this is that the fees collected from the Apartments is being used to cover the costs of those not paying the fees, if we all paid, things would get done.

Rgds
 

superfloss01

New Member
reply to messages

Thanks N7runner

thanks for your reply and on some of your points I agree with you, however what I am against is the clamping been introduced on the vote of 20 people in this estate its not right full stop. I do agree with you on a lot of your points and you are so right, but I have spoken to Brian today very nice man and I have informed him that although I have always paid (not just when the clamping was put into place) I will not be displaying my permits so if I do get clamped (which I have no doubt!) I will take it to court to highlight the fact that only 20 people voted this in- in fact I am in credit with my fees of a total of €2!! I would like a meeting to vote this in by the majority and I think that motion as been requested, thanks again for your constructive comments they are appreciated as a neighbour although we might differ I found it no problem to reply to you- this is my last post on this matter -will let it been known what happens when I do get clamped thanks again take care

ps I will not reply to fpryan77 all I can say to the corrections is get off the crucifix (bit harsh but there again who set the precedent)
 

CunningStunt

New Member
Also there are other issues in relation to clamping- which should be addressed like the yellow lines, have the 20 people who voted this in asked the people who park on the corners where will they park instead? Maybe a warning sign and a little ramp like another I have seen in the estate might be ok with people?? How much does this cost I'm sure this is an easy one to address, also the majority of people who have paid their fees in full (I did) did not under any circumstances want parking permits so where was our rights in this? very unfair play and hopefully we can get rid of it.

ps I don't mind paying my fees in full and others have not as I have said above it still will be an outstanding debt on their house / apt whatever, so they will have to deal with it at some stage. As for the people who did mind fair enough but to vote in clamping that was not the majority vote- is wrong plain and simple and that's what we are about. Get a majority vote before I feel the need to give an alternative! Because if 50% of the people did not pay then get 50% vote for clamping. that's what we are about.


________________________________________________________________

I had to sign up to note that the above points (quoted text) are beyond ridiculous. Sorry now, not attacking the poster, just the post.

(a) how do you expect issues like ramps / signs to be erected if there is no money in the fund to pay for them?

(b) The issue of a person/persons carrying a debt on their property if they don't pay their fees is nothing to do with this argument. They should be paying their fees each year in order to contribute to the maintenance of the estate each year.

Like it or not, I think we need to admit that there are the people who can't pay and people who won't pay, and I for one am sick of consistently paying my fees and meanwhile watching daily as this estate falls to pieces. Thankfully I don't live in an apartment; cracked tiles and paint peeled railings and I'm sure that's only the tip of the iceberg. I feel really sorry for those in that situation and I admire them for continuing to pay their fees.

At the end of the day all home owners in the estate signed a contract to pay these fees, simples. The company has offered to restructure payments once people get in contact with them. Can't say fairer than that.
As a pp said, would you expect your neighbours to pay your ESB bill, would you expect ESB to continue to supply power if you could not pay, were in arrears, and were not willing to communicate with them? hell no. Same applies here, your management fee is a utility bill.

I am for clamping, I didn't vote at AGM (wasn't in attendance). Clamping works, it is being done successfully in numerous estates around the country - people will pay their fees as a result, it's just so unfortunate that it had to come to this.
p.s. I love this estate and we need to restore it to it's former glory, we need fees to do this. It's one of the landmarks of Newcastle.
 

newman

New Member
Some good points there fpryan.
I did not attend the AGM therefore I cannot comment on what did or did not happen there. From what I am hearing a vote was taken and the majority spoke. Democracy may not be infallible but for the moment its the best we have.

P.S. I also did not vote on the Presidential election - can I now complain that the successful candidate is not the one I would have preferred? A little bit hypocritical if I did ...
 

Mags01

New Member
Three pages of debate - no solution yet

Three pages of debate so far and yet no alternative solution to root problem i.e. money urgently needed to keep estate in good order for all our benefit.

Don't misunderstand me - debate is good and glad to see so many interested now.

But having read everything - and looking at pro's and con's - I for one am not attending any meeting against clamping unless there is a viable alterative on the table for discussion.

If only this debate had taken place at or before AGM, if only more residents had attended AGM (everyone was invited/or used proxy form provided), if only more people paid some/all of their charges - then we wouldn't be in this unhappy situation.
 

N7Runner

New Member
Good News people, a car that was stationary for well over a year was removed last night.
Saw this also yesterday evening - and it was the owner who moved it themselves. Am dubious about why the car had been left broken down for so long in the first place but am ignoring that thought and just grateful that the space is now available for others to use. This has to be seen as a successful outcome and just hoping the main issue is just as successful.

Can't wait to see the estate looking as good as new again. :)
 

garyion

Member
Clampers to face stricter rules (Irish Times)

this may be of interest..

Clampers face stricter rules

CLAMPERS ARE facing stricter regulations following a decision by Minister for Transport Leo Varadkar to examine the industry.

The Minister, announcing the move yesterday, said he wanted to bring in a new system which protected motorists from exploitation and benefited legitimate clamping operators, “but which still penalises bad parking behaviour”.

Mr Varadkar is proposing a Bill on clamping and, as part of the process, intends to present outline proposals to the Oireachtas Committee on Transport by the end of the month.

The committee will consult interested parties, including clamping operators, local authorities and the public.

It will then report back to the department after which a new clamping regulation Bill will be drafted.

The committee will be asked to examine:

* the possibility of a licence or permit system for clampers;

* how best to ensure that people employed by clamping companies are of good repute;

* new operating guidelines for clamping companies;

* whether the licensing system should be operated by an existing State agency

the locations in which any new regime should apply, for example apartment blocks, shopping centres or local authority areas.

Mr Varadkar said yesterday that as it stood, the current system of clamping on private property was under-regulated, bad for motorists and bad for business.

“Members of the public have expressed serious concerns about the activity of some private clampers. In particular, allegations have been made of clampers behaving in a less than fair manner, yet there is no appeals mechanism against these perceived abuses,” Mr Varadkar said.

“There is no legislation specifically covering the clamping of vehicles parked on private property and the legal position is unclear.

“We want to bring in a new system which protects motorists from exploitation and benefits legitimate operators, but which still penalises bad parking behaviour.”

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/1102/1224306912908.html
 

superfloss01

New Member
The Irish Times article

Seen this article myself- brilliant- about time that the bully boys were answerable - also contact Minister in question and informed him of the clamping and how it had been wrongly introduced to our estate, suggested that a majority of every vote of every resident- oh I did point out the only the elite few who have paid their fee’s were allowed have a democratic vote (very democratic) (not) should be included in the new legislation not just 20 people to introduce clamping because they feel a grave injustice because they have paid their ESB bill and their Management Fees and we are great people and we can do what we like while so many residents are totally against but we have paid so there. Sniff Sniff.

Great that you are able to apply to a Minister democrately request information, my definition of democracy is a understanding of all implications outline exactly what is proposed and where it is to be implemented as for the Presidential Election did it not outline who was running, all their policies and everybody was well informed to make their choice that to me the last time I checked is democracy not secret ballots, no names to be given out publicly who voted for the clamping after all if it is such a good idea put your name to it and receive the credit you amazing people patting yourselves on the back stand by your conviction I will not be ducking and diving looking forward to my car being clamped bring it on- lots of signatures still coming in from people looking forward to a democratic vote for residents. And the residents are not too impressed with the present or past committee members. Newcastle Manor Committee is the least democratic bunch I have ever met.

PS Have noted the new proposed Blue Line on the Square where I live, did you ask any of us- oh yes it was at the AGM in May that was fully outlined wasn’t it !! amazing how this Blue Line does not cover present or previous committee members where they live, Still trucking on with fair play to everybody not just the station of the cross carriers - sure we would be loss without ya’s.!!
 

Lazare

New Member
Amanda,

I understand your anger (it's quite clear in your posts :) ), it does seem unjust that a small number of people can vote in such a serious measure, but you must remember you were invited to vote, as was everyone. I didn't attend either, but contrary to you I feel it's a necessary evil.

We NEED to get people to pay their fees, it's totally unfair on those that pay watching their estate crumble because half the residents aren't bothering to cough up.

Obviously there are some who simply cannot afford it, but there is a scheme in place to help those people.

Unfortunately clamping is the only reasonable way to gather those fees.

We have been assured (post 2) that if it's successful, APCOA's contract will be terminated next year.

While causing short term grief and negativity, surely you can see that this measure is a good thing for the welfare of Newcastle Manor long term? (obv assuming the feckers are gone next year)
 

superfloss01

New Member
Lazare thanks for your post, We will be there if we get a vote before the Clamping is in full swing, can't wait to get rid of whats there- doubt it - thanks again. All this has done is put neighbour against neighbour well done to the committee - but sure what's new with that lot.
 

Avid merrion

New Member
long time lurker on here but never registered or posted

Decided to start by getting into this topic

Hello fellow neighbours :D

In an Ideal world i don't think anyone would like to see the clamping in the estate

From looking at the threads no one seems to have suggested any alternative means to try generate the fess that are outstanding

( am not gonna start slagging people who give up time to serve on a committe, ill be honest ive neither the time nor the energey to do what they do on behalf of the residents)

To the best of My Knowledge committe elections have been open in the past so any of us could have went and maybe tried to get involved to help represent fellow residents if we thought we could do better

I personally didnt attend the agm but i did get notice and knew it was up for discussion so i cant really complain too much

I blame no one for the vote if i had wanted to vote i was given the option to do so but i like others never took it


I know times are hard for everyone and no one likes having to shell out for stuff, but unfortuneately thats life and we signed up knowing fees would have to be paid


I see some of the signs have started to dissapear from around the estate also

Just my opinions for what they are worth
 

princess pepper

New Member
Worried -

:eek:Hi,

I live in Newcatle manor court now for several years and have had to contact the managment company directly. To date I have not received any invoices or Bills, or statement. It would appear that there may be an issue with the master data information held on file and that new owners information were not correctly up-dated onto there system.

I believe the starting point in this exercise is too ensure the correct data for the home owners is held on the system. Currenly I have spoke with Brian and will reserve judgement until I see the outcome. However I have not received notice of AGM or EGM. As a home owner I'm now very cross that I have been excluded and that my rights appear to have been ignored. Is that a reason for poor attendance at AGM and EGM. If there is a large debt issue in the estate you must return to basics (a) confrim the correct billing data is held for each home on the estate (b) as I understand the debt is secure ie I cannot sell my home with discharging all outstanding bills to the mangement company so we are in a strong position (c) Discuss and contact the correct home owners and put repayment plans in place - utilise all options set-up a paypal account for weekly payments. It is important to think outside the box. (d) review and monitor progress - this will not be corrected over night - it has taken several years to get into this sorry state so we need to take a long term view on its correction (e) what are we doing using SAP is there not a local gardener that could be used or failing that maybe (subject to insurance) neighbour services could be utilised. I luv my home - look at them they are FAB. So lets pull together and make this a special place for all.
 

cd81

New Member
I have the exact same problem as princess pepper, I never receive bills/notices of meetings or anything else from the management company. I am on a payment plan for my fees and have to contact Brian each year so I know how much to set up the direct debit for. Brian did say on one occasion that a lot of post is being returned to them because the wrong address is being put on mail, its being sent to Monaghan, however they do not seem capable of rectifying this problem.
 

barbie

New Member
Have been reading through post,I've paid my managment fees and dont agree with clamping in our estate. I've noticed some signs have been taken down. Same dog owner (commitee member) still letting dog out to poo where young children play and never cleans up after dog pooing,got lovely photo of owner and dog in action,will be bringing it to next AGM.
I was wondering is there a household member? or member of commitee? part of the managment company? or clamping company? because this would be a conflict of interest.
 

newman

New Member
"I was wondering is there a household member? or member of commitee? part of the managment company? or clamping company? because this would be a conflict of interest."

Sorry barbie, I don't understand this question? (Also don't know how to quote properly )
I do agree with you about people not cleaning up after their dogs - its disgusting
 
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